Just a question. I've played the game in third person the whole time, and first person is disorienting for me.
What do you think, and why.

I pretty much exclusively play on FFP servers, but it's not that important to me. I mainly prefer FFP because it eliminates the possibility of anyone abusing the system. Also, I find scoring a hit harder in 3rd person.
Occasionally I may stop by a server that allows 3rd person view just to take a break from the usual.

what do you mean by abuses, or cheats, with the use of third person perspective?
Rob, what "sanctioned cheats" do you reference?
I do admit that you lose the "realism" factor with 3rd person, and if that's what we're talking about, then fine.

*agrees wholeheartedly with ^*

Removes the SIM feel that mektek tried to get back into the ol' game..

A Third Person Perspective lets you see more than when you're in the cockpit -- and I don't mean by the canopy's restricting view. Because of where the camera is positioned, you can see above that hill your Summoner cannot normally see over. This doesn't mean you can shoot over it, though, unless you are mounting LRMs.

I would rather stick to the first person at most times, especially when in a type of 'Mech that is definitely designed to brawl. If I am out doing recon, I might use third person as I'm not intending to stay and fight, as I collect as much visual information as my eyes gaze on. Even then, most of the time I stick inside the cockpit.


... Awesome picture, ROB EVIL.

It's a game. As such options provided to the player are not cheats abuses or bugs. Get the hell over it.

If that gametype doesn't appeal to you, then you don't play it. If more people play the gametype that you don't like and you feel like you "have" to play with people who take such options, then that should tell you something. You are in the minority.

When I began playing MW4 in veng, I just naturally got used to third person view. It was the only way to remain on equal footing with everyone else, and became what I'm used too. Now, going back to FFP, while I can do it, feels claustrophobic. Despite the realism, it feels unnatural. I'd wager it's the same for a lot of other players.

If MW5, for example, were released with no 3rd person option, I'd get used to that. MW4 however does, so there it is.

I believe what shini was ACTUALLY trying to say is that both have advantages and disadvantages. Be mature about it. Learn to live with them and use them or learn to curb your own ego. I for one find all 3 third person angles to be helpful when firing from cover, overview for vertical attacks, and the other two for cover on flat maps. I also find the 1st person to be more useful for targets that can do serious damage if they get close enough such as infantry, light, and medium mechs instead of wasting time, trying to back away from them to get a good shot in 3rd. If some feel that they are more comfortable in ffp, thats his or her choice. Same for the latter. I can honestly say I have had some pretty fun matches in both, but hey, its up to the individual. Me, personally, I have a button on my stick for view changing on the fly just fr the reasons I mentioned, so it should be pretty clear where I stand

FFP NAZIS OMG....

You better sanction looking back with your mech...or looking down...god forbid those...seeing through steel...omghax! Wait my bad...I forgot how real this game is...you must have to walk to the back door and open it to get a peek and then run back to your pilots seat. Or that trap door underneath your pilots seat to look down...now thats a neat trick. Btw dont make yourself look foolish and say they are camera views. Because if this was the case its plausible to assume a camera to be positioned another 15 to 20 feet above your pilot area on most mechs. Now if your looking out your window at the horizon line of a hill...how much higher is the camera's view that is positioned on top of your mech? The same amount of distance as if you were playing in FFP to get a view above the horizon I would guess, though some variations on height acoording to mech size...but then again how real can you make a game? Oh yeah I use the trap door underneath my seat to take a leak when i dont have time to use the real facilities inside my mech.

What, was I too politically correct?

wont be long before a lock comes...

this discussion is as old as the game and both sides feel strongly to their preference

i say, I am just glad there are folks PLAYING the game.

LOL I thought exactly the same thing when I saw the title of the thread. As I said to myself...."well what do you know, its not locked."

FFP, 3rd person, it doesn't matter I play them all. FFP servers, of course I have to play FP. If its an open server, i will use 3rd *UNLESS* I am piloting something light IE a raven or a wolfhound, in which case I will go First Person. Don't be upset if you are using FP in a Third Person server, you are in the wrong server.

Stop debating and lets go blow each other up

hell yea! personally i prefer 1st and don't care anymore how others play i just thought it was a funny pic. the funniest thing to me is watching people play in a virtualworld battletech pod for the first time and ask how to change it to 3rd person view

I would like to thank those people who responded to this query in a civil manner. I had not heard the arguments from the two sides before, even though I see that it is an old debate. I am sorry for opening an old can of worms that does produce a lot of passion from both sides. I think the most recent posters have it right though, debate for a little, but know that it will never be resolved 100%.

Let's consider the topic closed, eh?

Abuse implies you are breaking the rules of the game as built, which 3pv doesn't.

Now, if you want to lodge a legitimate complaint, talk about how the lean over/peek around thing doesn't exist in the battletech universe - than, you've got a real bone to pick. MW4 on it's own doesn't give the grounds to call 3pv abuse of any kind.

lol wut?


There is a fully customizable cockpit in the game, so it'd be a shame not to use it. Really, you should see the amount of naked ladies I-

I'm almost certain this is a dumb question but I figure that if anyone would have an answer it would be the crew here...
Is there any way possible to get the 1st person view with the left side of the cockpit on a monitor to the left, forward view on the center monitor, and the right side on a monitor to the right? Source code? Video cards? Miracle?

You mean, make a functional 1pv cockpit that doesn't cripple 1pv needlessly? ... what a novel idea.


*grins*

Just treat the side-glance view being blocked in FFP as getting radar lock in a heavy fog game.

FIRST PERSON ... All the way! the 3rd person view is a little distracting for me ... i.e. in any game!

The feeling when playing in 1st person is always (for me) a more realistic one ... and I dont like any of the previous MW releases 3rd person views, period.

I personally have no strong preference for one or the other. Although, some times when I find myself, piloting a mech, in confined spaces (Ruble Pile, city maps, etc.) I am tempted to switch to 3rd person view to avoid running into the walls/ buildings/ teammates/ etc.

Matrox TripleHead2Go might work

yeah, ok, so I said I wanted to be done discussing this topic, and I do, but I want to comment on Rob's suggestion for a customized desktop setup.

Rob, would that work? I mean, the game require you to press a key to access the left and right cockpit views. So, wouldn't the triple monitor idea just spread out whatever view you were currently using, and not allow for viewing all three angles at once (out the front, and out each side)?

I really like the idea, but I don't know enough about it. I'm just commenting on the diagram you so lovingly provided for us.

Going along with how many times I have read the word "real" when someone replies to a thread such as this...may I suggest instead of 3 monitors to simply lean forward a little more in your pilots seat to get a better view to the left and right?

I'm a die-hard 'Mech fan, and I prefer FFP, but when I was in the leagues, CTF and McR, I used 3PV for running because it allows the pilot to see all around him/her. For Defending, 3PV had it's place too, because it allowed me to remain passive while being aware of the area around me. Lastly, in a urban or similar environment, where you have close quarters combat and tight places and narrow passages, it's nice to have 3PV to get a good sense of what is around you.

Aside from that, FFP whenever possible. The more sim feel I get the better I like it.

That's the epitome of how players ought to view this. Individual perspective, what feels right or is preferred and what's best with each situation. Use the game as it was intended and how you like to play. Trying to tell people how they SHOULD play is arrogant to a high degree.

I am strictly first person when I play any game. When in a Mech you are "in" the mech...not hovering 3 meters behind it! The same goes for driving and flying simulators...you have to be in the cockpit.

I always play 1st person. My weapons are more accurate and I get a better "feel" for the mech if I feel like I'm sititng inside of it instead of behind it.

I use 1st Person to CTF run as well, mostly because of the previously mentioned "feel" for the mech. I can guide it better along a route to escape.

I only ever use 3rd person to scout. If I'm doing reconnosance, I'm not stupid. I'm not gonna stick my head up over the ridge. I'll sit behind it and look over.

Yeah, me to. I hit dirt when I try and shoot in 3pv

IMO (strong emphasis on the Opinion) 3rd person is just that a sanctioned cheat or hack...

-The position of the 3rd person camera allows a person to see over a hill that would/should have blocked their view...

-The 3rd person camera is not as affected by body movement (its more relaxed)... The old rocking JJ of the catapult nor moving quickly over terrain affects the targeting reticle (which is almost always centered on the screen, thus tied directly to the camera), as much as the same situations affect a FP camera...

or to put it simply.... It provides more tactical data, and a far more stable firing platform with little or no restrictions to the user (over the FP couterpart).


that said... I use 3rd person (if available) when I play (for the very same reasons listed above)...

no preference

1st 4 sniping
3rd 4 recon

sry im on my psp

Thanks ROB EVIL but seeing a box there rather than separated lines from the computer makes me think that it's just one view split as _Tronix_ suggested. It may just be one of those things that's as fruitless a desire as "world peace". Perhaps if there's a hack that would allow all three views to exist at the same time with the targeting reticle able to pass between the three then using a setup that fed the one view to three monitors would work.

*sigh*

Though I'd like to play first person since it feels more immersive, I play third person because of the limited view of the first person perspective given the hassle of fumbling for the buttons to look left and right during a firefight.

That box looks like one (exceptionally) widescreen monitor to your video card...

however mercs only supports standard 4:3 resolutions and that's unlikely to ever change...

FFP view may well be in line with the Battletech background (as written in the novels). I'm not sure about that; but from a practical standpoint, it's illogical. It's unrealistic to assume that 31st-33rd century technology (the mechs and weapons) would be used by a pilot who is effectively looking through the same kind of vision port that 2nd World War era (20th century) armored vehicles had. Battletech purists will have a field day with this no doubt. When they finish trying to chop it down, this basic fact will still be there.

um the WWII vision port (periscope?) wasn't 4 meters back and 4 meters up from the cockpit of the vehicle... nor did it give the person using it a massive field of view...

and you certainly couldn't angle your Sherman's torso down to look over that hedgerow between you and a camping division of Panzers...

! Bumper view in GT(1/2/3/ad nausem!) for the win! (and also to make your friends who get motion sick puke )



If it's not that you just have sucky aim, it's that the game seems to calculate actual point of aiming from the reticle in the FP view (ever notice that when you slam chest to chest and try to aim at the other mech in 3pv, shots go wild, but switch to 1pv, and they hit where you aim?)



*Klonks Matt on the head for being a dingbat* Per my other post... it's the way the game was built, and it's not a bug, so... "Cheat" and "hack" imply that the use of 3pv breaks the intrinsic rules of the game - it doesn't.





Not as implemented in mw4. FFP in mw4 is a useless crippled waste of time, as compared to what exists in the Battletech end of things.



Only the uninformed ones

In mw4, your main intake of information in FFP is through the viewscreen. In BT? ... You could almost do away with the stupid viewscreen. Not quite, but almost. The overwhelming majority of information of use presented to a mech jock is in the form of HUD readouts of sensor information.

well here's an example of it in use and links to more shots in other games

http://www.matrox.com/graphics/en/cadgis/p...h2go/images.php

heres some video of it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ga4lROt2AKI...feature=related

First off lovely looking half life 2 lost coast screen shot. As to the topic at hand: First person is the way to go. I view third person as sanctioned cheating because it allows you to seeing things that a real mech pilot wouldn't be able to see. Mechwarrior is a simulator first and foremost as such first person is the only viewpoint that should exist.

Aurora Paradox

My comparison of a 2nd World War era vision port is between that and 1st person view- not 3rd person. It's irrelevant whether that periscope was 4m back or 40; the basic priciple is exactly the same (and I'll point out that WW2 era tanks also utilized simple vision ports with bullet-proof glass plates that could be changed when damaged). The concept that I spoke of is, when referring to military technology, known as the constant tactical factor; and it's been in place since the advent of the spear- and bow & arrow. 31st century era weapons technology will not progress to that point without corresponding progress in ALL other areas of technology-and that includes the manner by which one detects and observes his opponent. Negation is not going to change that. Sorry.

Well at least one other person here realizes that future technology surely would not limit a pilots view to that of driving a box with a window. Let see we have a HUD...which shows a view...is it the same view we are seeing with our own eyes? Lets say an average mech is what...10m(30ft) and your seeing this clearly at 800m(2624ft) on avg...thats almost 9 football fields away...with no vision enhancement or no technology involved. Also does that little piece of glass you consider the "whole interface" to reality become a magical looking glass when you press the zoom key? Where does it go? Or do you have a little spyglass telescope you pull out of your pocket when you want to see further? The whole point being the HUD isnt a damn window for you to look out of to pilot your mech...it's an interface to the outside world...its an accumulation of cameras and data that presents you your surroundings. And with future technology and future wide angle cameras...satellite imagery(which is being utilized present day), I cant see how you think the game should reflect the simple views of piloting a box with a window.

If you stopped to realize that when all the 3rd person leagues went away with the zone...and noone cared to try and support them from another community gathering site that the player base died off tremendously...you would find that the only people left actually playing(if you want to call it that) are the FFP players. If this is what you want then fine...a game for the last 50 players who force others to play in FFP leagues...great. I almost feel sorry for Mektek putting so much time into the packs for such a small fan base. But thats what you get when you cater to a few...instead of realizing the whole. A great portfolio at best...but it looks as though MWLL is already on track to something better. I suppose none of you FFP players will go there is its 3rd person right?

[sarcasm]your confidence is overwhelming.[/sarcasm]

the actual answer is that the aim in 3pv is slightly different and it means you need to double check to make sure you are clear of yonder hill before you shoot because your camera clears the top sooner that your weapons.

No one will ever convince the other side that his preference is better.

It is like asking / forcing somebody else to wear a shirt that you like, it fits nice on you, but the other person just don't like it.

I'll fore go any discussion of 1st paragraph. your opinion is your opinion an you are entitled. The simple fact is the game was born from the world of battletech, a fictional setting and we simply dont know what their capabilities would be other than what the writers give us in the books. sure we can speculate, but you cant tie in todays technology to a 'set fictional world' and then say that is 'right' because we dont know what we dont know.

But I am a little confused on your 2nd paragraph (*also looks to your number of posts*). When did all the 3rd person leagues 'go away'? And unless I missed something including all those matches last night and the night before, MWL is still in full swing and well supported.

As well MekTek came up with their own 'zone' called MekMatch. hmmm, when i logged in, the news headliner on this site mentioned that they had just moved MekMatch to its OWN server for BETTER support and there was a note asking folks to restart their dedicated servers..

MWL is an (almost exclusive) 3pv league with MANY ladders and (listing) over 700 active players. this league is funded and full active.

Yes, i consider FFP actually playing and that is what I prefer, but I dont force ANYONE to play that way UNLESS you join my server. even then, Im not holding my gauss rifle to your head forcing you to join my server... (maybe because i dont own a gauss rifle or maybe because I dont care what view you prefer. Im just glad you play, that is, IF you actually play)

When MWLL finally gets a release candidate or a released version I will be one of the ones giving it a shot.

I cant figure out why so many have such negative attitudes. Its a game to be played for enjoyment. If you dont like it, dont play it but dont put down what others enjoy when no one is being hurt, they are simply having fun playing a game. If there is any confusion concerning the definition of such, use a real book called a dictionary and find the meaning of 'game'. If you dont have one, then Google is your friend.

And i stick by my original statement. FFP, 3pv, it doesnt matter as long as there are players. Each person likes what they like. dont argue the view, play the game.

1st person. It sorta gives me the feeling that I'm in the 'Mech, even though the cockpits aren't that good.

I wish the cockpits could be improved, though.

You were almost right. Mechwarrior is a GAME. A simulation game, true, but it is a game. Flight simulators are boring, dull, realistic. They simulate flying a plane. Games entertain. Mechwarrior is a game adopting a sim feel. As such, realism can be ignored (which lets you have mechs and weapons for them in the first place) for the purposes of player experience. In mechwarrior4 mercs, that includes a 3rd person view. You can argue till you're blue in the face whether you think it should be, but you're not the game designer, you're just a player. If more players wanted to play sans 3rd person there would be more FP games out there than 3rd person view. But there never were. Because the majority of players preferred it played that way.

Mechwarrior is a GAME, first and foremost, simulator second. As such, it's made to sell copies and entertain. Nothing more.

"If you dont like it, dont play it" Classic...

but true

In a nutshell, I use 3PV to gain "Situational Awareness". I'm not fore it or against it. To me, it is merely a tool available for my use for the aforementioned purpose.

I am a member of one of the last FFP teams that left MWL. After MWL closed the FFP ladders, we tried other ladders with hopes people would see we could play 3rdPV if others would play 1stPV. I feel screwed over by the MWL community. Give a little take a little right? Nope, now it's a 3rdPV league. What were the fans of mekteks mechpaks supposed to do to play organized FFP drops? Well? There was no other league for us. Many of the teams in MWL are awesome competitors. I miss some of the intense FFP action that MWL teams could bring to the table.

So don't automatically assume somebody is trying to force FFP down your throat. To me it's was the other way around. Many FFP teams where forced to hardcore or other mods to keeps playing organized drops. My team played 3v3 campground
and TKOTH in MWL just to keep together in the mod we like (mekteks).

With that said, some smart and talented people created a new league for us FFP dorks that enjoy mekteks fine work. It's called mech combat league. Some awesome teams have joined and the action is getting fierce. Hooray!!

Crysis is a FFP game (first person shooter actually). Will you play MWLL when you cross hairs disappear in all views except first person view?

Do you play bf2142? What happens when you hit C in your 21st century mech? Hmm, the crosshairs are gone. Surely in the year 2142 we would have weapons systems that would allow aiming for every available camera. Wait, that game sucks right? It's FFP, it must suck.

nvrmd