Please, some admin nuke this thread.

I would like to request that mektek impliments a 2nd person view, to settle all debates.

But then you'd always know where your opponents are!

And come to think of it, aiming in 2nd person would be a pain in the ************.

If mp4 goes FFP, the game dies. Dont do it

"Fixing" 3rd person view = games death? I'm really thinking it's quite the opposite. If both type of players are reasonably equal in an FFP:Off server in terms of field of view, then the game will be much much better in the long run. This is because FFP players could flock FFP:Off servers, which means more players actually playing with or against each other.

Not that it's even possible, but even if it was possible to change the view system in Mercs, it would probably be a bad idea. This is just how this game works, and it's the game we all bought. Weapons and new content aside, changing the way the game works on a drastic level would be a little reckless.

We're better off hoping the next mechwarrior just does a better job of balancing things.

I don't think it's too drastic Shini. It'll only slightly affect jump snipers, everything else stays the same. 3rd POV jump/pop snipers will then learn to use / rely on electronics more, which is a good thing.

Just like the heat scale change way back, players learned how to adapt. I believe the change was a major one 'coz it affected a whole lot of playstyle.

Although the discussion is indeed moot, because nothing can be done about it.

Wait, I think I know you....... nope, nevermind. You may have to refresh my memory. For that matter you might have to tell me when I have ever needed my own army of forum fighters, since you've obviously followed my posts on mektek long enough to know that I have been "running my mouth for years". I call it speaking my mind when I'm not being brutally honest and calling it the truth.

idea go to a ffp server.

lol there would be many many people that wouldnt install it, if it took out 3rd altogether. The whole discussion is moot, even if something could be done about it.

It's tricky Scimi. People like our friend here are so sure they're right and their opponent is wrong that any person that agrees with their opponent is instantly a cronie/follower/acolyte/other degrading comment. Because God forbid someone else with a head on their shoulders comes to the same conclusion as you. That would be cheating!

I do play exclusively in FFP servers. ;)

The idea is not to take out the 3rd person view. The idea is to "fix" it so that both FFP and 3rd POV players can play together.

Funny to see your little buddy posting just after you. The fact is your "truth" is a blanket statement that is an insult to many people. You truly believe all FFP players are bad players? I think people like you get off on insulting other people. I don't give a crap if you don't remember me. You have a bad memory or your to skilled to care about some bad FFP player. I do however remember you from open games where I have seen you insult people. I also have seen people from your unit gang up on people in forums. So go ahead, keep speaking your mind and putting hundreds of people down all at the same time. Whatever makes you feel good.

I can only assume you are referring to Immy as my "little buddy", in which case I would have to wonder how closely you've actually been following, since there have been a number of instances where we've disagreed on these forums and it sure as hell didn't stop me from arguing my point. Nor do I care if I end up arguing alone against an "army of forum fighters", which I have done several times as well.

I think you misinterpreted my post though BattleScar. Either that or you're guilty of the same generalization that I am. My statement was not that all FFPers are bad, but rather that when I see someone in a third person server getting demolished and whining about how 3rd person is unfair, 9 times out of 10 when I run across that same individual in NBT, they are just as bad as they were playing 3rd person. Of that other 10% that aren't just as bad, probably half are still bad, and the other half are at least decent. My point is, if you are any good in FFP, you should be able to hop into a 3rd person server and hold your own or even do well considering the multitude of crappy players that inhabit 3rd person servers. If you can't and you start whining about how they have an unfair advantage, odds are you weren't very good to begin with.

That's not to say that there aren't good FFP players. There are FFP players that I respect, but when they play on 3rd person servers, they don't go around making excuses when they die, and they generally don't have to because they're actually decent pilots.

straw man, redirection and projection... you could teach a graduate level class in the fine art of demagoguery and aetherial debate. bravo.

battlescar: no need to get into it with a couple of forum/server/ (and as far as i can tell) real life trolls. just nod and smile, throw them a goat haunch and tiptoe across the thread while they're gorging. you'll be through the stench before you know it.

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QUOTE (BattleScar® @ Apr 15 2008, 14:30)

Funny to see your little buddy posting just after you. The fact is your "truth" is a blanket statement that is an insult to many people. You truly believe all FFP players are bad players? I think people like you get off on insulting other people. I don't give a crap if you don't remember me. You have a bad memory or your to skilled to care about some bad FFP player. I do however remember you from open games where I have seen you insult people. I also have seen people from your unit gang up on people in forums. So go ahead, keep speaking your mind and putting hundreds of people down all at the same time. Whatever makes you feel good.

And now my favorite quote from Cheri Oteri:














[size="7"] SIMMAH DAN NAAAAAAAAHHHH!!!!!


Seriously now, you're blowing this so much out of proportion that you're making yourself look like a fool.

Seriously now, what is the basis of all this "Cuz I'm FFP" S##t anyway? You and your lot of people who "arrogantly" assume that "the community" has a "never ending discrimination policy" against you and your kind need to chill out. NOBODY GIVES A RATS ( _ )( _ ) ABOUT IT !!!!

Not that I'm jumping in on anyones "side" or anything, but you HAVE basically just said that a good FFP player will be able to be average in a third person, or if he's lucky have some success.

Though I agree with you that people who'll jump to excuses rather than just accepting the cards as dealt tend to be too distracted by their percieved "injustices" to pay proper attention to the game.

As for battlescar and wilson, you're flame-baiting. Your posts are far more troll-like than scim's seem to be, which either means you're trying to act like tough guys on the innernet, or he's just a WAY better troll than you guys, and instead of ignoring barbs you jumped right up and down to complain and whine which i personally find ironic as hell given the topic of debate between you guys.

I think this would be a very good time to lock this topic and cast it into oblivion.

The entire thread is funny.

Really I could give a crap about FFP vs 3rd. I play both, including NHUA and have been doing so since the launch of veng.

My first post in this thread was to defend that FFP players may feel left out of mekpack leagues. I even complimented the teams in MWL that could bring awesome challenges to FFP style play.

I was then called out by a guy who didn't read the thread and called me a fool for saying I miss FFP at MWL. (a guy who from my limited personal experiences is an asset to this game)

Then REVOLVER jumped all over some new guy for no good reason. I defended the new guy and did not join in the "lets beat the noob down parade"

I then quoted a real inflammatory remark. I quoted this remark because it was insulting to say FFP players are still bad. I guess I baited him a bit, my bad.

I had no idea that I had to be able to read between the lines and into peoples minds to imagine what they may be thinking in order to contribute to this conversation.

I also have no idea why so many of you find it necessary to insult and belittle people to prove your point.

Facts are facts, you can type big words to explain your rude comments all day.

I have been quiet for years on these boards while some have typed up pages and pages on topic such as "best assault mech". Certain people got themselves banned or suspended in those types of threads because you know that the MKII is the best assault ever!. You know it is!! Oh, you think that mech is better? your a noob!

Funny, the first time I pipe up about something I get slammed for no good reason.

Good job at chasing people away folks. Good job.

I'm Sorry........Scimitar Cat........I share the same sentiments........for many years this subject has been bashed around.......for what! Some first person player or wanna be brawler trying to rush another player only to die over and over again. Just to say I do well in both but I don't run to a first player server cry wolf because I'm having a bad day.....So If your crying on this sever now about 3rd person it is just whining.....

It is part of the GAME

no, really. i wasn't kidding when i said don't sweat it. it's a hot button topic - one that will instantly put people on either side of a fence and give them a bunch of bricks to throw at each other. doesn't matter if anything you say makes sense, you're still gonna catch some flying objects with your face. fact of the matter is, FFP players hate conceding an advantage to 3PV players that they feel is borderline exploitation and then hearing how their "yep, still bad". 3PV players hate being called cheaters or exploiters only slightly more than they hate playing FFP; no one likes to have their skill diminished just because they prefer a play style that has an few inherent advantages.

no one's going to budge, everyone feels strongly and this sort of thing is a homing beacon for people who love to brandish their ePenors. it's even provoking idiocity from people who almost always have a sense of humor and perspective about these things. remember that shini has about as much objective perspective on this issue as an ant does of the marianas trench (just like the rest of us) and let it go.

no one likes anyone else who victimizes him or her self in exaggeration of a current point to argue an annoying one that is meaningless to ffp players who would actually use his or her own brain to realize that sarcasm is best used to poke fun rather than ranting on like a bratty little kid. That is wise advice, you should use it, all of you who thought you could argue a point, knowing that even the guy who started this thread knew better than to blunder in to such a thing needlessly and he is probably just as new at this game. Its not a tragedy that you got negative feedback for not wording your thoughts carefully after the thread author submitted his last post but rather that you expected anything but negative feedback after it. Ohh yeah and my bad, Cheri Oteri was on SNL not, MAD TV, oops, not that it matters, thought she was hot then and still do. And since you brought is up , if we keep casing you away, WHY DO YOU KEEP COMING BACK???? Dont tell me its because we keep attacking you while you're gone.....

Just stop taking everything here so seriously okay? There are people who rarely ever use a mk2 because they feel its outclassed who manage to do fairly well in this game. Im apologizing for any passed insults now because I missed part of your post. In the mean time... *knocks bowl of popcorn out of mod's lap* WTF MAN ARE YOU JUST GONNA SIT THERE< LET ME DO SOMETHING LIKE THAT IN THIS THREAD THEN LAUGH AT IT????? You know what, I think im now finally bored with this thread. Battlescar apologized in his post, I am n mine. End of discussion

I fail to see how your post contributes to this thread at all. You did not even mention anything about 1st or 3rd person, which is the topic of this thread. On the other hand, my first post in this thread stated my position on the matter and I left it at that. Only when some disgruntled noob and his "army of FFP forum warriors" decided to call me out did I say anything more on the matter. Come to think of it, I don't think I know who you are either DukeWilson. Not that I have a problem with being broadsided by hordes of angry noobs. It just gives me an excuse to "run my mouth" some more.

You're right, though, I probably could teach a class on debating. Classes will be held every Tuesday at 8:00 PM. Please be prompt. Your assignment for next class: learn what the terms you used actually mean.

I said it on page 1 of this thread, I repeat it now. I am surprised it has not been locked already.

but again

i say, I am just glad there are folks PLAYING the game.

0.o Subliminal messegez hut me brains -.- I think you msread the pun here vettie...... heres a clue: The thread itself is the pun.

noone is forcing anyone to be here. you're all free to do whatever you want with your lives or gaming. if you have a problem - you can go and whine over at NBT.
just don't ever think we'll brake our balls to keep you happy because "the customer is always right". well, we're not selling anything here, and Microsoft pretty much said "customers can fcuk off" so there's no need for that kind of attitude. nor will it get anywhere.

think of this the next time you say things such as "I'm thinking of quitting..." etc. most of the people won't care, and will presume you're mature enough to make your own decisions.

You should be more careful throwing around terms you haven't fully grasped yet. Especially when you yourself are guilty of those same things. That way, you avoid looking stupid when you're actually attempting to look smart.

Dude mellow out. This all entertainment. It is all rather funny. Some people actually enjoy getting involved in the drama whether they will admit it or not.

I can see that certain people have the right to poke fun and makes puns and others do not have the right. Thats fine by me. I'm used to that kind of stuff. Don't go and try to pretend that this is a falsehood because it has been made quite clear.

Why tell me to go to NBT either as I try to support mektek regularly? Waiting for tax returns to do it again. Why are you trying to get rid of your fans?

As far as chasing people away, did you read what the new guy typed about not posting here for a long long time because people are rude? Thats who got chased away not me. I'm a stubborn s.o.b. that will stick around drinking and laughing till everyone is passed out. Then I get bored and go to sleep. I hope this goes on for 9 more pages because before this thread, I was kind of bored.

C'mon trolls what do jah like?

to troll? *walks on over to assault mech overload thread.....*

Who here actually gives a crap about this thread?

just because you had to look the terms up doesn't mean i had to look them up to use them.

but, here, i'll give you a consolation prize: you are indeed the smartestest. smarterer even than me. i'm really sorry i hurt your feelings (or those of your most esteemed colleague), buddy.

1. If you look through my post you won't see any of the terms used.

2. You're right, it does look like you only have the vaguest notion of what the terms mean. You should have looked them up before throwing them around. Which is what I said in the first place.



Fail.

Oi. This thread needs a mercy killing. Watching it's bloody corpse thrash is a bit too much to take.

if you missed the boat on these simple terms, dont worry. i'm here to help if you prove unable to use a simple dictionary or textbook. if you need help, you can find decent descriptions of the second two in any psychiatric dictionary, and the first in any introductory debate textbook. hell, ill even explain them for you, for a nominal fee. i'm quite secure in my grasp of their meaning and their usage here. there IS something you can help me with, though. what does vacuum inside a human cranium sound like to that particular human? i'm dying to know. is there echo? can you carry on conversations with your own echo? help me out here, inquiring minds and all that.

sound is a wave and therefore is unable to "transmit" / traverse in vacuum... that's why in space, noone can hear you scream.

The thread is pointless. If you take one or the other out people will quit and there won' be a mechwarrior anymore, well the community prefers 3rd so if FFP went bye bye perhaps it would. Leave them both, and some bums will still continue to complain. Fact is, They were both in game when it was released, so don't screw with it, and mabe 10 pages of thread non-sense could have been avoided

Now adding to Wicced's point: Thats it, no one (except maybe the mods *ROFL * I still cant believe this is actually happening) want to hear anyone whine about being dissed by the community because you aren't. As it is, this game is running exclusively on private servers now, and if you don't like the way games are being played on any of them, I suggest you set up and run your own server and invite your friends to begin the populating process so other players will see that you are not just another bot hive and choose the regular favorites over you all the time. I can guarantee you that with just how fast those tend to fill up, there are plenty of stragglers. This game, with it being so old now is first come first serve. Learn to use that fact to your advantage instead of whining all the time.

Dunno why people kept saying that "fixing" will kill the 3rd POV. Just like the heat fix, it never really ruined the gameplay. All that was needed is to adapt to the new environment. The game is supposed to have both views, I agree 100% and everyone in this thread does. No one wants 3rd POV be removed. Some players just like to get it "fixed", because it is used in a way that it isn't supposed to be.

A passive mech beyond 500m isn't supposed to be detected / spotted by a mech that's behind a cover.

The reason I don't find it pointless to post in this thread evenif I know it's not going to be fixed is because people keep saying / insisting that the FFP players wants the 3rd POV removed.

Ahh tam, you should probably leave it at both sides were wrong instead of taking one. Yes I know that is not your intention, but you dont need to read that post carefully to misinterpret it. The whole "dont change ffp" thing was just as idiotically instigated as the "dont neuter 3pv" argument along with even dumber remarks and responses, but to be safe, Ill just leave it at that.

[quote name='Tamaraw' post='1055214' date='Apr 20 2008, 10:43']Dunno why people kept saying that "fixing" will kill the 3rd POV. Just like the heat fix, it never really ruined the gameplay. All that was needed is to adapt to the new environment. The game is supposed to have both views, I agree 100% and everyone in this thread does. No one wants 3rd POV be removed. Some players just like to get it "fixed", because it is used in a way that it isn't supposed to be.

A passive mech beyond 500m isn't supposed to be detected / spotted by a mech that's behind a cover.

All 3pvs are at an angle for the same reason ffp is centered, use your heads. To call foul because you dont use them and suffer as a result of it, on those who do, and effectively at that, just seems idiotic and deserving of ridicule. Thats why I attacked the first guy who started this whole flame war in the beginning, because if he had used his head, he would have expressed his opinion and been done with it instead of acting like he had to say something about ffp being "endangered". He deserved what he got for not accepting that he and he alone was choosing to handicap himself by playing exclusively ffp, hell, many people claim its more challenging to play in ffp at all times and in all servers, THATS DEDICATION FOR YOU. Wanna talk about pov advantages? Lets talk about how FFP is the only view in which you can aim straight down in a 90 degree arc from facing forward while 3pv is "severely handicapped" from that angle... as the arc is more like 65-70 degrees (doesn't this sound painfully familiar?) so in the air, guess which view gives you the easier shot of nailing your target on the ground while you are in the air? I wonder what you have to say now? Dont tell me you NEVER USE it! My stance on this issue should be quite clear, as well as my reasons for sniping at some of you. I may have been harsh, and I apologize for making you angry, but you have to look at the whole picture before saying some of the things you said.

Huh?



I never cried foul, why should I? I never play in 3POV servers. I just wanted it fixed, so I could try out some respawn games whenever there are no Team Battle CNR FFP games.




Errr, I really didn't even know about this until you mentioned it. I use the "down camera" mode to shoot mechs below me when i'm in high ground or jumping on top of my opponent.

Besides, it doesn't seem a big advantage when it's only usueable at around very close range. Whereas the advantage at 500m and out with the current 3rd POV have is ...




You may say anything you like, I have nothing against people here. I'm just reasoning out the best way I can.

I understand both sides.

I actually wanted to have it more "balanced". So people on both sides could play together in harmony. This game have few players left, I think it's a good idea to make a move so both type of players could play on a 3rd person server.



Ack, sorry, but I kept reading posts about "removing 3POV". I just don't think "fixing" equates to removing it.

Okay just for the record, I wasnt dissing you, just mentionng that one or both sides if still present in this thread may see part of what you said as fuel for the torch. You just made me realize how I should break down my thoughts on the subject, thats all the 2nd post was about. Sorry for the misunderstanding, Tam. btw I mentioned the camera down view because it does warrant a reason to switch to 1stpv from 3rd, especially if your opponent knows just how much less of a chance you'll have of hitting them from above while in the air in 3rd, which is easy to tell just by how you jump from cover based on the mech.

Speaking of which, passive radar seems pointless half the time anyway.

Alot of the popular mechs have BAP anyway, so most of the time it's like 600 m till detection. So that leaves like 400 m to be sneaky in passive.

It's still a gripe of mine in 3rd person, but even more so in ffp with the added emphasis on radar.

Well, I don't know about that...

Running around with Radars Active and BAP on is going to get a ton of missles and minigausses sent your way from whoever is piloting those Archers, or any other mech with ECM/BAP etc. etc.

Maybe because I only play on Sunder radar is a little more important than just a Respawn TB or TD type game?

The more I play the more I realize that good use of active and passive radar, ECM, BAP etc. really can make or break whether or not I do well in a match.

Yes, passive radar does have some use. Passive radar "as is" is more useful than none at all.

I guess I would just prefer more tactical value for going passive. More often than not, the 600 m or even 500 m detection radius vs passive radar doesn't warrant the risk of going completely blind. From a tactical perspective, it's much easier to compensate for this by matching with a similar electronics package, and thereby negating whatever radar advantage would have been attributed to players in the first place. This is what tends to bug me.

There are very few games in which I understand using 3rd person view. MechWarrior isn't one of them

Passive radar is game mastery. Learn to play with it, and u would became a natural born killer.

So if you "Learn to play with it dont you become a "taught" killer? Seems to me if you were a natural born killer you would not have to 'learn' to play with it...

lol
You´re right.

just yankin your chain my friend, lol!