A while ago I posted a thread with my opinion that the Wildcat needs to be nerfed. In summary, I said that the ability to hold 2 ERPPCs, 2 Clan Gauss, JJs and possibly ECM is too uber for a 75 ton mech. I suggested making the CT have 5 ballistic slots versus its current 6. Has anything on the Wildcat been done, and/or will there be anything done for it in the future?

lol you do realize that to put that config on a mech you have to run it very hot, and drop the armor down a good bit on it to usually less than 9 tons of armor. Basically that config is a glass cannon so to speak, so if you cant kill it fairly fast when it is exposed, then you are doing something inherently wrong in your gameplay. I dont see how the WC is any diff than a BK with the exact same config, only the BK can have ECM and BAP.... oh noes nurf that to lol. Every mech has a weakness, so when you play someone that has a lot of firepower for a mech its size, it is severely lacking in other areas, so you have to exploit that. If they run hot then take a heater, or you could just take a mech with weapons that cause knock to knock their shots off while you move in and rape them with close range weaps since they will likely have little to no armor for a mech of its size. Hell if you go for pure firepower, you can take 2erppc, 2ltppc, and 2 clan gauss, though you will run hotter than heck and have no armor, it can be done. So what if you shut down after one shot, you do so much dmg they should either die, or be on their face in the dirt so by the time you power back up you can then finish them off.

Seriously, dont call for a nerf on a mech just cause you get owned by it. Take some time and figure out how to beat it, and if you think your mixed range ground pounder will work on every map then maybe you should do everyone a favor and uninstall and stop complaining like a little girl. Play and die alot and eventually you figure out how to do well in the game, its that simple.

The Wildcat is a tough 'Mech, but it's not an impossible one to defeat. Just as the poster above me said, one has to exploit a weakness within it, as every 'Mech will carry some form of disadvantage with what they put on it (or what they didn't!)

Wow, that's a serious tude you got there.

I don't see one.

*looks at drago's sig*

I can see why he doesn't want the WC nerfed. Probably personal crutch mech.

I used it sometimes on 3pv servers, only mech that's better in terms of stats is tenchi. If you ask me, tenchi should be taken care of first, then WC, besides it's CT is easy to hit.

Though the 2cgauss 2erppc WC is rather noobish. It actually doesn't run hot, and armour is no prob when you have JJ and can spread damage. Reducing CT ballistic to 5 slot would put it in line with other heavies.

th wc isnt that hard to beat - most configs are slow and some longtoms will heat it and bust it preety easily. i recomend a black jack for that job - with jj a longtom and smoke agls and iff - its realy a snipers nightmare.

however - a 5slot wc is fine with me

Well "hard to beat" depends on who's using it. But if I were to go with my personal experiences against one then no, WC isn't hard to beat, ranks a bit less than thor. Tenchi on the other hand has always been tough for me lol.

You just have to hit the 'mech hard "in the mouth"

Well if you think putting it to 5 slots will put it more in line with other heavies, i think that is completely false. If you look at the other 75 ton mechs, the black knight can carry the exact same 2cg 2erppc config as the wildcat, it can carry 4erppc and has ecm and bap plus jj. The madcat has enough slots on it to load up with some very wicked erl boat configs or wicked missile configs that out dmg the so called uber WC config. The vulture2 can pack a nasty erl selection plus gauss and ppc. The thanny can pack nearly the same configs as the WC and BK. The orion IIC can hold a hvy guass and a clan gauss, isnt that unbalanced? No it isnt, each mech has its own roles. The 70 ton sniper mechs can get relatively close in fire power to the bk and wildcat, but they weigh 5 tons less so it would make sense that they cannot take the same amount of firepower. Heck look at the marauder, 75 ton mech can pack 2 plasmas and a hvy gauss or 2cap ppcs and a hvy gauss. That is a butt load of firepower, but the weps can be taken out, and same thing applies to the WC. Take the rear off a WC and the ct weps usually get dmg and one or all goes away. If you get your torso blown out, there is a good chance you will loose some of your ct weapons. The WC is by no means overpowered, it just does very well in the role it plays, though it isnt as good as the BK in terms of firepower you can put on it. The BK's weakness is its huge CT.

About the only thing that needs to be fixed with the wildcat is the issue it has at making the ct blinky red when you have half your ct armor left. Ive seen this i think on the ares as well, but if you use bar views for armor you can see how much armor isl eft in certain spots. Really, there are far more buggy mechs inthis game than the WC. Tench is a lil buggy, but i have no problems taking them out, though it sucks when one of their specials saves their butt from dieing. The Ares is one i have a bit of trouble with, but play against WAR and BS enough in PL and you get real good at killing ares, tenchi's, wildcats, and black knights. Shadow hawks are buggy, the fenris is real buggy, and so is the osiris, dasher, lots of the small mechs are lol. It just takes practice to get used to hitting those mechs, then the playing field is even.

As for my personal use of the wildcat, yeah i like to use it, though i have more manageable configs that may not do as much dmg as the 2cg 2erppc config, but serve my play style very well. I choose my mech for the map i am playing on, and after playing through most of the maps i rarely take a config that doesnt match up with the map. It just takes time to play the game to get good. I rarely take assaults cause i like to be more manuverable and less of a target. There are not that many heavies that can hold their own against the uber assaults out there, but with some practice a good pilot can end up being able to go toe to toe with them using cover and chaining etc.


If you are complaining about a heavy, im surprised you are not complaining about the uber assault mechs that pack so much firepower they can basically one shot kill mechs, that is unless you are the assault pilot getting schooled by a more maneuverable opponent in a heavy that packs a punch.

the wc is just fine as it is.. a few shots to ct and u loose ur ballistics.. i enjoy it but its got nothing on my thor.

Yeah, and the Thor's been enjoying a spot as a prime brawler for a while now. Wouldn't hurt to throw a VERY minor nerf at it just to shake things up a bit.

Probably not worth the time investment, though.

Nerf it all, mechs, weps, and of course anything else that would cause people to have an enjoyable experience. We've had this same request for the ares, tenchi, stone rhino, gladfag, black knight, but whatever if that darn wildcat is so overpowered, I vote just toss it out even though it was a beautiful model, made by a very talented artist, who donated his time to make an incredibly badass mech for us (atleast I appreciate your work sid). Strange Homer not calling for a nerf of one of his rides like his highly effective laser boat BmasterIIC or his Sunder with the HG and LL that he racks up tons of kills in the past when I was in server with him.

Not sure what you are talking about Homer. The Black Knight already has the ability to hold these configs. The Wildcat was basically made to compete with that mech. Where it has the advantage is in GEOMETRY not weapons load out. I would agree to maybe a slight reduction in speed or agility, but not weapons load out.

We went through this in the last thread about the wildcat, and everyone agreed the 2 cg in the torso was too much. With regards to the other 75t mechs none can do that (besides bk). Also none is as skinny as the WC. Skinny+JJ is harder to hit. ECM...well I don't really consider ECM that great the way it is now, so lets ignore that advantage.

You say the BK is pretty good too, and yea it is nice, just has a huge bloated chest with a CT bigger than WC. Not to mention the side torsos also contribute to the problem, because unlike the wcat which has these wee things stuck to the top half of the CT the bk has massive pecs that are huge targets. The BK has BAP? Ok, but anyone who knows what they're doing will just run passive and use their head (+3PV advantage if its allowed) instead. I also play puretech, so you see the WC can carry better tech in that case.

The wildcat is not that unbalanced and it's not hard to kill. I'm not whining about it personally because whenever I've played against one it died as expected. There's only the fact that you can load so much onto it's CT + skinny profile and JJ that make it better stat-wise than other heavy mechs, which is not good. Of course there will always be mechs that are better than others, but reducing cases like that is generally a good idea. Although I do like taking the now supposedly obsolete mechs you almost never see anymore (ex. novacat/thor) and whipping the new mechs you see all the time (ex. ares/wildcat) with them, so having mechs that are better than others does give me some fun challenge. In any case the balance changes are not up to us, so I'm just gunna wait and see what MP4 brings out; but whatever happens I don't really care so much about changes to the mechs so much as the changes to gameplay that are occurring.

What do people mean when they say buggy. No reg? I find that the amount of NDB I get doesn't depend on the mech I'm aiming for. NDB just happens rarely but randomly to me.

And as I said the last time around; there's nothing wrong with it.


Next thing you know, people will be complaining about the erppc being too uber ... waaait...

What some people think are buggy Mechs may just be lack of knowledge about how the armor locations are distributed on the hitbox models.

I agree too.

The geometry and additional panels alone (ie. w/o uber speed or w/o pilot skill factored) makes a mech tougher. No idea how to make these intangibles equal / balanced though, except maybe if all mechs have 'em (ie. additional panels).

My opinion is that the ability to carry relatively high powered loadouts + slim figure + JJ + ECM is a little overbalanced for the WC. I mean, you can carry 2 Clan Gauss and 2 ERLL in the torsos alone (these are also high enough so shooting over terrain isn't much of an problem), and yet still be an armored, jump-jetting mech with ECM that has a skinny profile. And no, it's not impossible to kill, but to me it seems just a little too "uber" compared to other heavies (and even some assaults).

I hope this is okay to do, but I found the link to the previous WC nerfage thread (it's locked, so admins, nobody can reply). In it, verybad said the WC would be looked at, and I was just wondering if anything had been decided regarding the mech in MP4.

Here's the link: http://www.mektek.net/forums/index.php?sho...=108598&hl=

Thanks,

No offense Homer, but discussions here at MekTek are hardly representative about what the community wants as a whole.

If you take away the dual gauss ability its overkill. There's other things you can do to bring mechs into balance without making them completely useless, but people seem to only think in terms of weapons. For instance, reduce the free tonnage on a wildcat a few tons, or reduce its speed/overall agility. Not only do you take away the dual gauss, but also dual lbx20, which is standard on almost ALL 75 tonners.

I'm not saying that removing 1 ballistic slot is the right choice. I mean, it might over-balance it and piss off a lot of people. But like you said about the removing free tons or losing speed/agility, it's my opinion that the WC is need of some sort of nerfage. I'm no expert, but here's an idea: What about moving the laser slots in the side torsos to the arms? That way people won't be able to strip the arms in the mechlab and be a skinny walking torso-gun.

I'll file a ticket on this for discussion amongst the beta group in light of the armor model changes.

if the wildcat is such an ubermech for a heavy, why do yo see so many black knights on the servers?

black knight pilots way outnumber the number of wildcat pilots. so why is this? anybody?

the only difference i can see is bap/armour values, so what makes the black knight so popular?

i'm just curious...

I guess it could be the gametype. I pretty much exclusively play Puretech No Respawn Missions and the Wildcat and Tenchi are probably the most common mechs on the field. I dont see many Black Knights at all.

true, i was talking about nhua servers, where 4ERPPCs are quite handy...

The problem with wc is in HOLA games, and more marked in puretech. NHUA games have more usefull configs (typical BKs, etc).

-Wc are hard to hit (slim torsos and heck!, even legs) and they are damage sponges
-They don´t need the arms at all, unlike BKs, Thors, Canis, etc
-The weapons placed in torsos are not destroyed frecuently. How many times we have seen blinking red wc still firing gauss and erll?
-if they are not so good, why we can see them so frecuently in HOLA?

+1

[sarcasm]
Because it's a weak mech and some people like to play underdogs.
[/sarcasm]

If you want a really radical ideas

1) increase the tonnage of jump jets on these more powerful mechs. (behemoth 2, Marauder II, I'm looking at you! 8 tons for jump jets)
2) Decrease speed/mobility (Wildcat, Black Knight, Cyclops, Gladiator.....its bad enough that these mechs handle like sports cars while carrying upper tier weapons/electronics)
3) Please, for the love of God, make the longbow not handle like a sports car. Way too fast and agile for its payload on open range maps.
4) Put a speed cap on assault mechs. No more 70 kph machine gun annihilators. Assault mechs should not be speedy at all. That advantage should stay with lighter mechs.

I'm all for nerfing upper tier mechs but if you're gonna do it, do it to all of them.

Sorry to bring back this threat but a friend of mine and i talked about the wildcat while we played mercs. i think the easiest solution is to make the wildcat an IS mech. that way it can still carry the same weaponry in open games but is more in line with other heavies when puretech is played - for example on sunder.
imho the wildcat looks like an IS mech anyway - its very similar in design to those word of blake celestial mechs. the timeline fits, the design fits and the presens of wob in the game would be better shown. its not that i like them alot but they are quite importat at that timeline controling terra and so on. and the campain of mercs ends with the videos of the beginning wob jihad.


ed

the whole point of the wildcat was as a clan counterpart to the BK

Yep.

All the other clan 75 tonners are ground based. Wildcat is the only choice for a jumper there.

yes i know - but i dont think that having one less equivalent kills the game. the clans have very potent 65 , 70 and 80 tonners that can jump. and the need for a jumping clan 75tonner is only valid for puretech games anyway. in open games the same config fits into a bk and an IS wildcat can load clanweapons in an opengame. At the moment the wc can dish out like an IS 85tonner when it comes to jumpsniping or brawling .althoug i have to say the brawling power of the wc does not come from the 6slot. its because heavy mediumlasers are a graet backup for every brawler

however - it was just a suggestion.

Nerfing any particular chassis would probably move another chassis into the top position for the specified tonnage. We would then see open servers filled with whatever chassis is the current top performer. We can't blame players for wanting to take the best mech available. I understand that some chassis seem to be a bit much for their tonnage but I don't think nerfing is always the best solution. Limiting duplicate chassis per drop in open servers would help this problem and add a lot of diversity. This kind of option would probably chase a lot of people away though. I really like the wildcat the way it is, I don't like seeing 3 to 6 of them per team per drop in open servers though.

Uhm,Thor prime brawler? Are you playing Vengeance, bk or mercs PR1?
The Thor hitboxes make it so that it demands work to survive in a brawl, the only thing it has going for it is the 360 twist, sometimes i try to make a Thor brawler but the available tonnage at a reasonable speed always putts me off, especially with jj.


Yes, you are totally right, those dumb non-betatesters have no idea what they are talking about... So how about enlightening us willfully ignorant folks about ALL MP mech hitboxes with some pics of them with MP4 launch?

+1 and many more ppl think the same.

I think the Wildcat was originaly an IS mech. The Thor, with jump, ECM and a pair of clan Gauss and ERLL is a very good mech, and a Grizzly with jump, ECM, clan Gauss, 2 ERPPCs, 1 ERLL has more firepower than BK with less tonnage. And they are more versatile mechs about their missile racks.

And remember this, I call BK "the glass doll", it always takes all the damage on their central torso and you can kill it easy with a pair of alphas.

(sorry my bad english, dont have time to traduct with google xDDD)

The Wildcat was never an IS mech.

The IS hardly needs any more mechs at all. The IS has a TON of mech choices.

Well thats a simple question, its because of how the weapons slots are situated.. all even chest and arms so it doesnt require you to jump and expose your entire mech, just the top half.. other mechs arms hang lower than chest weapons so your entire torso is exposed to bring all your weapons to bear as a pop tart sniper.. also makes it so your legs dont need much armor and the addition of a mgauss or light guass with ppcs are a real kicker..

Me I'm kinda partial to the Victor and Mar_II in NHUA - but both of these suffer from arms weapons lower than chest weapons..


Oh and I find the WC as hard to kill as the dang Tenchi.. everyone keeps saying its got a big CT but I always have a hard time killing them as the arms come off it 1st then the side of the CT armor.. rarely can I get a dead on CT hit on it even when were facing each other.......

The way i see it the WC is not overpowered. Since MP3 i have been in many many league drops. Do we see wildcats? yes. Do we see them exclusively for the job you claim it's too good at? Not even slightly.

It's good, and in that weight class it has to be. It's not head and shoulders over-performing though, you do need to sacrifice speed and armour.

Can we get an actual mech usage stats?

O.o
That thing should burn itself in 2-3 shoots... no tonnage for heatsinks!
Please, tell me how you make it work! Thanks.

I don't know. Unless it's nhua they seem to be the mech of choice all the time, especially on sunder. Maybe there was a limit to the amount of duplicate mechs on one team in leagues.



tap coolant+shutdown override.

Some ladders to restrict in that manner but most do not. The simple fact is it's not the best mech for all purposes, but it IS a very good mech for some purposes. But not, I feel, too good.

Wildcat is possibly the most used heavy mech in opens (HOLA): 2 ERLL+2CGAUSS have a good punch, they are fast and don't overheat, weapons are impossiblely hard to destroy, they save tons from arms, they are hard to hit, still more to hit it consistently at the same location... more?

At least force them to use arms to carry the 2-3E weapons.

the point is - some of us claim it is overused and overpowerd - most IS assaults in the 80 - 85 ton range can dish out that much LR damage in Direct fire + they handle heat worse - the exception is the awesome but even 4 is ppcs or 3ppcs + capppc cant compare to 2cgauss + 2erppcs.wildcats layout is tough, the free tonnage is good and the slots are topnotch. but i dont think its the slots that overpower it or the layout - its the combination of layout, slots, freetonag + CLAN WEAPONS.
making it an IS mech would leave the wcs performance unharmed for open games where other mechs are on par through mixtech. but for puretechservers it would change alot. dont you think 2 isppcs + heavygauss or heavygauss + 4 islrglaser would be enough for a jumper of 75 tons? and even with IS tech 2gauss 2 ppcs are possible - but much harder to keep cool.



easy - alpha, gauss + 1 ppc, 1 gauss, alpha and so on. OR alpha, cover, cover, cover alpha .
hoawever - alphastriking is not everything


Ed

I see it as being good at too many things.

For taking potshots at people I use 2 erl 2 erppc cgauss. Works great, and doesn't even use the 2cgauss ability.

For brawling you can have 2 lbx20 2 hml 2 hl - 100 points total. Not to mention you got room for JJ and ECM. You can even bring 2lbx20 2 lppc 2 erppc - 102 points, but a lot of range with those ppc's. Generally a bad idea to try to stick JJ/ECM on this, but with range and an alpha like that you don't need those anyway. Mixing these two variants up will also yield interesting results, and yes, heat is manageable.

So now, what 75t mech can do all that? Black knight? ha

If one ballistic slot were to be removed from the CT the WC would not be quite as awesome at brawling (like the BK) and would be closer to the counterpart of the BK, as was intended.

There's a million better ways to nerf the wildcat if we must do that.

1) Get rid of ECM
2) Make the side torso slots 1E
3) Mobility/agility
4) Decrease free weight by 2 tons

I kind of like the idea of 1E slots. It puts the cat in the same problem as the Canis and BK, the main guns are divided and easy to lose.

Of course this may all be a moot point. 2erlg 2cgauss is probably going to be significantly less effective in MP4 than it is in MP3.

Maybe. The various new sensor warfare elements will likely make target acquisition harder at long range - but damage reduction favors high-damage weapons like the gauss and PPC.

And the Hyper Autocannon/20 for us brawlers.