I'm sure the staff is probably seriously contemplating slitting our throats and/or shutting down the MW4 forum, but:

I asked in another thread and never received an answer as to the nature of Arrow IVs in MP4. Will they actually be worth using for once instead of continuing to be a weapon that is outclassed by even ISLRMs?
In another mod I played the Arrow IV had an extreme ballistic arc and could, for all intents and purposes, reach more than half-way across almost all the available maps without hitting any obstacles. I think it should have been even longer but that's me.

I ask because while using these Arrow IVs in tandem with a NARC-mounting Shadow Cat I was able to cripple two enemy 'Mechs before running out of ammunition.

'Mechs like the Bowman whose functionality is hampered by their armament would benefit greatly. This would also give us reason to use 'Mechs like the Raven more often to function as artillery guides. Weapons like this could really change league play where it would lend a new support weapon comparable to the Long Tom but actually usable for the support role, since the Long Tom has such an enormous lead time it's an effectively useless weapon.

Without knowing anything more than what we've already been told, I can already say that Arrow IV will be significantly more useful than it is now even without any changes to the weapon itself or systems that will improve it's range/targeting capabiliy.

I'm mainly talking about the Arrow IV's new role as the only long-range missile system capable of inflicting noticeable damage on heavily armored mechs. LRMs, with their damage spread across muliple projectiles, will have their effectiveness severely reduced against mechs with high amounts of damage reduction.

Given, this is more a nerf to LRMs than a buff to the Arrow IV, but whatever. Usefulness is relative.

Nerf LRM? I dunno about that. Currently only the artemis lrm is worth taking, all other missiles do crap for damage. Long range is already dominated by direct fire weapons, so nerfing lrm is only going to make that true.

It seems like to me that arrows or missiles in general just simply don't do the damage they used to for whatever reason. Lag seems to eat them alive.

Don't mistake me saying that LRM's are getting nerfed for me agreeing with the nerf. Right now, it's probably the only thing in MP4 I'm concerned about. You're right that direct fire currently dominates long-range fights, and this is likely only going to reinforce the status quo there. I'd like to see long-range missile systems buffed. Both their damage and guidance could be a bit better from how it is now without totally shoving gauss and PPC weapons out of their current prevalence.

Unless something has changed since I last played a few months ago then arrows were a perfectly good weapon system.

Agreed. A quad-arrow longbow is gonna be fragile as heck, but man if it doesn't core assault mechs fast.

np

I agree completely.

I hadn't noticed that Arrow IV launchers were broken, funny.

I've had a blast rocking enemy 'Mechs with a single launcher. What's wrong with the Arrow IV again?

Don't really think there's a huge issue with the flat trajectory; and it allows for more predictable dumb firing - not exactly risk-free, given the limited ammo, but with a bit of timing you can nail a hill-humper quite well with dumb-fire arrows. Definitely not that easy to pull off but it's not like a mech that peeks up from a hill is completely immune to an Arrow either - dumb fire gives no warning.

Yeah, I'm pretty happy with the Arrow IV as-is.

Hellspawn with a Cluster arrow IV, ive seen guys use that little gem so well they made the entire other team leave the server! 2 of em working together is an nightmare to face, and most cover aint gonna save you from the splash damage!
Nowt wrong with the Arrow IV systems, letting em have an arc trajectory and range that goes most way across the map sounds a bit stupid to me, for that to work they would have to weight like 25 tons! lol

Well, I think the Arrow IVs work fine as-is, but I would also like to see them work like they did in CBT.

If I remember you basically had 2 types of Arrow IVs, an Area Saturation missile which worked like standard artillery (kind of like the cluster...), or the homing missile which could be used as direct fire (the Thunderbolt).

I think the artillery model currently in play is a bit stupid, as in the Long Toms/Thumpers are kind of easy to avoid since it takes them a full minute of floating in the sky to land... all you have to do is look up and move away from the shell.

Of course it seems that Artillery in MP4 will be more accurate, but still, the time it takes for a shell to hit while traveling its arc is pretty silly.

That being said, I think it would be nice to have a system to really make Arrow IVs more like they were in CBT... that is having a spotting unit designate a target, or target area with TAG system, then having a unit be able to fire an artillery type Arrow IV in on the target.

Personally I think it should work the same way with LRMs.

As for balance issues... well, doesn't really matter since MP4 is pretty much set in stone, so why we're even talking about this is kind of moot.

Regardless, I would like to see Arrow IVs come into play as they were meant to be, but I'm definitely not going to lose any sleep over it if they don't. With all the new stuff coming out in MP4 I think I'll be too busy enjoying it to really care

I think what would be neat is if all of the Arrow IVs were made one weapon and there were special ammunition types, like the homing/thunderbolt round, the artillery round (like the cluster), and maybe smoke.

One Arrow IV system with different warhead types is a cool idea and would fit in with other ammunition based weapons.
Maybe the arc trajectory could work as long as it had the same range as LRMs.

Wait. . . Will C3 be letting you achieve missile lock on people that your allies are relaying sensor data on without you having line of sight?

See, I'm not sure about that either. If so that'd be awesome, but I'd hope there would be some way to circumvent that kind of lock.

There have been more than one occasion where I've went to dumbfire my LRMs or arrows into a target, and because someone can't aim their Narc beacon, they just zipped exit stage left to nowhere...

well, no. it just shares radar data.

Oh, okay. That's good. I wasn't looking forward to LRM volleys being fired by mechs without LoS to their target.

You know I never said they were broken, nor did I ask for a change.
I asked if there would be a change. I would prefer one so it worked like it does in CBT but I did not ask for it.
As for the effectiveness of your 'quad longbow', I argue that if you could have a full Indirect-Fire (IDF) capability that one artillery spotter could annihilate enemies.
The argument that flat-shooters make for better dumb-firing is also a weak one. The IDF function would add minimal time in-flight since the longest distance you'd be firing at is 1000 meters at a stretch.
Needing 25 tons for it to do that? That's the most baseless statement I've heard in a long time about MW4.

Now if anyone could actually answer instead of throw speculation at me and claim it as fact, it'd be really nice.

I am sure that it could be changed, the arrows in MW2 flew on a variable trajectory with 2 km range and the engine has advanced considerably since then.

The arrow IV was also terrifingly overpowered in MW2 MERCS.

Hell yes for dispatching a full lance of 'Mechs at extremely long range with an Uller. The ammo ran out though as I left myself with only a Small Pulse Laser for back-up... but agreed, Arrows WERE very strong weapons then.

MW2 - Daishi. 2 Arrow4+ammo, 3erml was godlike in the campaign.

I once got killed by an ArrowIV in MW2 that I fired. The thing decided to chase after a NARC beacon that was directly behind me when I fired it.

that's a cool way of dispatching missile boats - stick a narc beacon in them and make them blast themselves to bits

It can happen if you narc a friendly

That would be a terrible way to go... tho funny in the fact you may comit suicide by firing your missiles

The Arrow IV, being a field artillery piece in CBT rules, is technically a multi-board weapon that can strike from at least three kilometers out.

If there was a revision to it, I’d like to see it be able to hit past its listed range with assistance. If the C3 nets are going to work properly in MP4, I’d like to see it get used as intended, such as when Arrow-refit Catapults began appearing in Liao units with a recon mech, typically a Raven, for forward observation.

Of course, with the exception of the flattest maps, this would require the option to arc the shot like LRM’s do. Based on the open complaining I’ve been able to get on servers using Arrows as-is, I’m guessing the protests would be rampant.

I'd be happy if the range was extended to ~2.5Km at the expense of some weight, even if lock range cant be increased (although I hope it can).

I think of the Arrow IV basically a small cruise missile. It can be extremely useful with Narcs if its range is extended. Not increasing the manual lock-on range or at least not to the extent of the maximum range so as not to overpower it, with it weighing more as a trade-off, will make it more of a team use weapon. Even as an ammo type I'd like to see this happen.

As long as there is an apparant counter to the arcing Arrow IV only whiners would be complaining. Granted you might have to make it VERY apparant what the appropriate counter is. Perhaps through proper documentation even. An arcing guided missile is logical and makes sense. Might just take some imagination to properly balance it in game.

the arrow should have very low manauverability - like no turns harder than 40 or 30 degrees. that way small units can dodge it or underrun it.

AMS?

Arrows are immune to AMS/LAMS.

Do they have to be? What if all missiles could be shot down by any weapon including LAMS/AMS? I've always wanted to take down a pack of incoming LRM with RAC.

IMO, losing AMS invulnerability would really kill the Arrow IV.

think of ArrowTs as a rocket compared to missiles (LRMs). Having thicker casing and being bigger, it is immune to conventional bullets like AMS and low powered lasers like LAMS and as we know, bullets bounce of thick armor, not reduce it.

or, just think of it as a one big LRM, encased in DR armor with a bigger payload - and renamed to ArrowT

I think for small missiles like the SRM/LRMs this could be quite interesting. It could give a new use to missiles as a destraction weapon, allowing you to get in some shots while the enemy attempts to destroy the missile salvo. The main problem I see with this though would be the implementation of the Free Reticule, which would allow anyone with an MG to cut down a barrage in seconds. Maybe some balance system could be worked out though.

Hmmmm.....A good reason to take secondary weapons?

What about NARC users? Light Mechs are going to be as important as ever in MP4 for scouting and target requisition, NARCing being a good way of taking down select opponents. Whats the point of having missile based support mechs backing them up if their firepower is just going to get shot down? Worst case scenario is that anything but the ArrowT becomes unused and dead.

Implementing the ability to take down missiles manually will have a big effect on everything, and needs to be considered carefully.


Other than that I like it.

I've always wanted to shoot missiles down manually.