Disclaimer: Some of the following is obviously beyond the scope of MP4. Also, I recognize that different gamers want different things from a game. Gamers, even MechWarriors, run the gamut from twitch gamers to MMORPG junkies. Please, no discussion about BattleTech not being "realistic". Assume the BattleTech Universe as a given/starting point.

In my opinion, given the BattleTech Universe as a starting point, increasing the level of realism also increases the level of immersion and also increases the suspension of disbelief. To me, the suspension of disbelief and high levels of immersion are what make a good game experience. I think MP4 should be as realistic as possible. I admit that this does increase the level of complexity as well, but to me that is a good thing. I want to feel like I have a very complicated machine at my command, like piloting an F-16.

At the macro level (beyond MP4), I want to feel like I am immersed in the BattleTech Universe. I want to experience everything a real MechWarrior would go through, like:

1) Briefings
2) Checklists
3) Startup procedures
4) Hot drop from orbit or
5) Ride a Dropship down and pilot your mech out of it
6) Critical hits and mech subsystem management (rerouting generators, internal fire suspression, ejecting ammo and/or exploding ammo)
7) Way more smoke and fire on the battle field
8) Extraction at the end of a mission
9) Debriefings
10) And all along the way there should be things built in that give a more experienced pilot more advantages.

Probably a little off-topic here and maybe what I really want in the long run is a MMORPG, but concerning MP4, what is your opinion about how realistic it should be?

what does any of this have to do with MP4?

hes just stating what in his opinion would increase the immersion factor of the game. well i agree that hotdropping like in the final mission "griffon base" in mw4 mercs would be cool and some maps could be darker , have more rubble and smoke. still - its not realy needed for the game to be what it is. everyone is free to make maps and i believe one can add dropships and smoke and alike there too.
breefings and debriefings are rather pointless because every team does it via teamspeak. extracting and such would make sense for online campaigns but only if they are no respwan, hola etc. otherwise it would just be an unneeded gimmik.

sure things like that look good in singelplayer but mw4mercs is about onlineplay. and the singleplayercampaign becomes boring with time.

but when it comes to mp4 - well - it probably has nothing to do with it. maybe the screenshots and discriptions raised expectations that are too high to be met

I'm just trying to say please put as much realism/complexity into MP4 as possible as I think this will increase the level of immersion and the suspension of disbelief in the game and therefore improve the experience. Sorry if I went about it the long way.

How good a game is depends on the balance of realism/unrealism and its different in each game, but generally I believe a truly great game can portray the unimaginable in a realistic way.


I'd like to see stuff like nano has suggested exploding munitions, hot drops, briefing etc. I always love a good briefing for a mission, something like what Rainbow Six and Mech Commander achieved.


But. Lets be realistic.

We're talking about a game that has no source code available, and as it is MT has worked wonders with what little they have to work with and from what we know MP4 proves that point further.

Asking for all that, it would be better off making a mech game from scratch. I know we have some great things like AT1 being produced, but theres only so far a modding community can go without a huge budget and top of the line tools.

I just like to add that not all realistic items are fun (ex. eating in RPG) and not all fun items are realistic (ex. able to respawn after death). There should be a good balance.

Just learn from Blizzard.

always been an avid combat flight sim buff..IL2, Janes and such..while adjusting mixture and supercharger stages are cool in a history based sim ..in a fiction based one it could get tedious and not truly add to the suspension of disbelief ...i DO like complexity tho, so if such changes could be justified to actually makes SENSE then id support them..

so basically following the criteria you proposed Nano id say yes

but how would you expect us to do that? especially with no source code?

you'd want single player kinda briefings to occur in multiplayer? talk it out with your clan leader, not us.

1) Briefings
Yes, but as stated, SP Campaign/Mission Play only

2) Checklists
Meh

3) Startup procedures
Hell Yes.
After looking at screenshots, you have to reboot systems in MP4 don't you? Maybe if all systems can default to off upon drop (including Reactor) in No-Respawn/Campaign, that would be NICE!

4) Hot drop from orbit
Do Want

5) Ride a Dropship down and pilot your mech out of it
It was done in SP Ghost Bears Legacy IIRC and should have been in the game from the start. Even in MP, having to wait until 4 Mechs (or Team if less than 4) are destroyed to appear in a Leopard Class Dropship flying to the Drop Zone would be great.

6) Critical hits and mech subsystem management (rerouting generators, internal fire suspression, ejecting ammo and/or exploding ammo)
Ejecting Ammo would be nice, the rest is probably overkill. Some micromanagement is good, but too much would kill the gameplay for the average user IMO (myself included).

7) Way more smoke and fire on the battle field
Agreed

8) Extraction at the end of a mission
Great idea, but would only work in Campaign/Mission Play.

9) Debriefings
See above.

10) And all along the way there should be things built in that give a more experienced pilot more advantages.
Isn't that what the Mechlab is for? Other than that, newbies wouldn't stand a chance. I'm not a fan of this one.

If this was suggestions for MW5 i'd also add heat for individual waeapons (potentially destroying them). Maybe represented with a growing/shrinking red line under the weapon in the top right corner of the HUD.

I like MechWarrior. I feel that it combined enough realism into it without slamming us with things like Jetison Weapon/Ammo, switching power direction, enabling systems, etc. It plays slow enough for me to say "Hey, this is pretty realistic," but it's also fast enough for me to laugh about things, say I pwn noobs, etc.

I don't want another MechAssault... but, I don't want another Steel Batallion either. If you want to add little things that make MW feel more realistic without slowing gameplay, then by all means, go ahead. If you want to, however, add things that I have to micromanage on top of what we currently have to do, just for realism, then No. I don't want that.

The Free Aim Reticule change is nice. That's realistic, isn't it? Things like that.

What...You don't want to take potty breaks?


You're doing a helluva job so far with what I have seen in MP4. Just don't be afraid to put something in because it adds complexity. Use your imagination to balance it out.

And like my disclaimer indicated, some of what I said goes way beyond MP4. So, no, I don't want mandatory briefings in multi-player. Although, a map overview briefing that is available in the lobby would be cool.

I've always felt the biggest drawback to the realism of MechWarrior games, especially online play, has been that nobody is afraid to die. You know you'll respawn. Some people die intentionally to get a new 'Mech, say when you've run out of ammunition. Others will charge in and blow themselves up against an assault 'Mech.

There is no consequence for death, so people don't strategize, they don't plan, and they don't use caution. Whereas on a real battlefield, even a "fictional" "real" battlefield, you know if you die, you'll respawn at 100%.

There's a fine line and a close contradiction to "realistic games".

That's what you have the no respawn option for

Woots, beat me to it. I believe those who like respawn came from Doom-like FPS crowd.

Whoops edit time ran out.

1) Briefings
Dunno how that would work in an open online game. For leagues that's feasible.

2) Checklist
Checklist of what?

3) Startup procedures
Sounds interesting, but I think you'd need a new MW mod for that...I can't see how it would be incorporated currently unless it's just pressing buttons for each system to activate like what bumblebee said.

4-5) Hot drop from orbit or ride a dropship down and pilot your mech out of it
As long as it didn't take a long time YEA. Not sure, but I think a map maker could also just set the respawn point on a map to a hanger (and give whoever blows up the hanger a crapload of negative points), there's enough room in there for a 12 mechs I'm sure.

6) Critical hits and mech subsystem management (rerouting generators, internal fire suspression, ejecting ammo and/or exploding ammo)
Ejecting ammo so it doesn't explode sounds ok, rest may be a bit complex though. Wait don't we already have something for internal fires? Coolant flush!

7) Way more smoke and fire on the battle field
That's great to a certain extent, but after that...lag

8) Extraction at the end of a mission
That sounds cool, but it'd only work well for no respawn missionplay. You could emulate that currently in mercs through having each member of the attacking team who makes it to a certain spot on the map (complete with active dropships) after the main obj is completed gives their team a certain number of extra points. There could be a 2-3 minute window to reach the dropships, after which they "take off" aka round ends. Tieing this in with a hot drop out of the same DS's at the beginning of the round and having them land at a random location on the map after the main obj is completed would make for an interesting game, although the max time would maybe have to be extended to 15 mins. Again this is something map makers could possibly address - and on that subject, any map makers reading this should mess around with the ambient light colours more; they really aid in the atmosphere of a map.

9) Debriefings
Not sure what you mean exactly, but there is something like that already in the game I think, or maybe it's only in veng. It's kind of like a replay of the game from a top-down perspective. You can speed it up or slow it down, and set it to track a particular player; you can also see everyone's damage displays.

10) And all along the way there should be things built in that give a more experienced pilot more advantages.
But there already are It's actually not so much "experience" that counts in any game, but playing smart and throwing tricks at people. Try not to be predictable, but try to predict what the other guy will do.

wait, did you mean something like "Congratulations, you've hit someone with a CERLGL 50000 times! You've unlocked the CHLGL! / Your CERLGL shots will now cause more damage!" kinda thing you have in BattleField?!? ************ no. no badge-locked stuff.

Yeah, i always hated that system in battlefield 2142,especially things that have a big impact like grenades, stamina, and the battle sensors upgrades.

Nah, Sharky. That statement wasn't fleshed out to well, but I'm thinkin more like: If the game is complex (realistic), those with a mastery of the complexities will naturally be far more effective pilots.




Checklists - Mostly startup procedures I guess. The idea is if you forget something, its gonna bite you in the ************ later. Could be something that is bypassed at your own risk, but I agree that spending much time on something like this falls into the "no fun" category.

Internal fires - With the old SW on the Tesla II pods (at the highest skill level) you had to reroute power, eject ammo before it exploded, indicate where you wanted internal fire suppression etc. There were pretty extensive sub-systems to manage.

Smoke and Fire on the battlefield - I think this could be handled client side. Guess it is already there to a certain extent. When I was using the HD patch sometimes I could not see very well from the smoke coming off my ACs (if I was backing up for example).

Extraction - Could be you need to get to a certain point for extraction before enemy reinforcements arrive. Definately a map thing though as it relates to MP4.

Hehe - Remember this thread?

Heh, it was always been like this even in Vanilla Mercs. No idea why it is there though, as if DoT weapons didn't have enough disadvantages to them.