Final ingame models for the Turkina-Command, Turkina-Prime, Turkina-M and Turkina-H (though electronics and extras on each may change depending on balancing.
Textures are ingame textures at double resolution plus a specular and an incandescence texture (for shinyness and glowy areas) Spec and Incandescence don't fit into the engine currently so those won't be there.
I may add some more scratches and dirt to the legs and feet, but this is pretty much what will be going into the game (minus raytracing and HDRI light sources )

*blinks* Whoa!

Awesome. Just...freaking awesome. My mind is blown.

Nononono, don't tread on the squishy parts, I still need them

This mech reminds me of a chicken, a turtle, a frog, and a wasp all at the same time. Very nice work you got there. That mechhas very small head area it would be extremely hard to get a headshot on that beast. Is this a heavy mech or assault mech ?

Awesome work.
Can´t hardly wait to grab one...

95tonner Clan Assault.

2 clan rail gun?

Oh man...Soth is gonna LOVE me in that Turkina-M.

CAN I GET A WITNESS?

DO WANT

Nice, brings out the omnimech in the Turkina. Well done VB

This monster will bring the ruin to Inner Sphere xDDDD
(Great model VB)

O.........M.......G



Me Want to Has

I'm... so... speechless!
This Turkina model rules!
The CBT version may be cool but this one is "Superior".

They are not rail guns.

Well, we still having some Raven to cripple that thing..........

lol, its a REAL BIG TARGET

People are welcome to post their ideas for layouts for weapons and electronics for the 4 variants as those are not finalized.

Note the Omni pods on the sides of the mech's torso, currently I'm planning on the Prime, and Command getting one (on either the right or left sides) and the H and M getting two (one on each side). These have the most potential for causing balancing trouble. The M will not have a chin turret.

The arm weapons pods are energy, though having one of the barrels be a Direct fire pod is an option I'm exploring. The shoulder cannons on the H and Command are wavering between DF and Ballistic (They do not have to be the same on both variants btw, eg the Command could have a DF pod while the H gets two B pods). The missile pods are pretty obvious.

I would like electronics, pod size and type suggestions, etc.

The command will be electronics heavy and the H will be electronics light, the M and Prime will be in between. The Command and Prime have jump jets, the H and M currently do not, I could be convinced otherwise, but make your arguments effective.

Please suggest layouts that you think would be competitive, but balanced, note the mech will not have omnipods other than the side torso ones because the variant models are all omnivariants that have been visualized.

Any other suggestions for mech playstyle (eg mobility) and how we can make it fun but balanced for you to use are all welcome.

The shoulder cannons will NOT be Railgun capable, this will not be an option. No. Bad.

Well I will start with the CBT configs.



The Turkina Prime has 2 ERPPCs in one arm, 2 LBX-AC/5s in the other, and a LRM-15 on each shoulder.

The Turkey A has 2 gauss rifles and 2 LRM-20s.

The B has 2 large pulse lasers, 2 ER Large Lasers, 2 ER medium lasers, 2 medium pulse lasers, a targeting computer, and lots of heatsinks.

The C has an LBX-AC/20, 2 large pulse lasers, 2 medium pulse lasers, 2 machine guns, 2 flamers, a Streak SRM-6, and an active probe.

The D has 4 ATM-12 and 2 ER medium lasers.

The H has 2 heavy medium lasers, 2 UAC/10s, 2 medium pulse lasers, and a targeting computer.



All variants have jump jets as they are fixed in the base configuration.

kind of reminds me of the Masakari weapons set for some reason...4ppc or an LRM set or something in between or maybe a plasma cannon (i still love that weapon lol)

Missile Variant:

ECM
Enhanced Optics
NO JUMP JETS
C3 Slave
Blue Shield (dunno if this is is or clan)
Advanced Gyro
55 kph average speed
Left arm/right arm 3M
Specials: 2M/2M

(no quad arrows please, but lrm 120 something not possible on clan mechs, still allows for two arrows, but keeping the kodiak as the only triple arrow clan mech)

well. with that much firepower there's not a lot of room for engine. The CBT Turkina was a slow moving death machine, but it could jump into unlikely places, So you could out maneuver it but if you got in front of it you were toast. I would like to see that same kind of performance, slow but lethal.

For an interesting balance quirk, the Prime variant in CBT had two autocannons on one arm and 2erppc on the other. It might be interesting if the arm slots were like that on the prime. 2 3slot energy on the left arm, 2 3slot ballistic on the right. I see the prime as having slottage like a cross between a MadCat 2 and a Massakari.

The M. variant looks like it should have 4 3 slot missile pods. The balance trick there is going to be giving it enough missiles but not so many as to shelve the longbow completely. Granted the arm launchers are lower and thus not a conducive to boating arrows, but right now only the longbow can carry 6Clrm20's. The best compromise may be to keep the longbow faster. Maybe make the turkinaM have 4 3slot missiles and 41slot missiles. Unless of course you are unconcerned about the long bow in which case I would say 2 4slot missiles and 4 2slot missiles.

The TurkinaH will have similar problems regarding the fafnir. If the over the shoulder guns are 4 slot ballistics then the TurkinaH clearly has better geometry and in mixtech games will be a far better platform for twin Hgauss. 2 3slot ballistics with 4 3slot energy would be to good I think, and I think you want to put some 3slot guns in the arms. Not sure though. I think this one is going to be the hardest to balance because even with few electronics it could be easy to make it either under or over gunned compared with other mechs in its weight class or above. Maybe something like 2 3slot DF on top, 2 3slot beams on arms with 2 2slotDF riding sidecar on the arms and 2 2slot omni in the chest. twin 1 slot beam in the chin. This would give it a slot depth slightly better than the bloodasp with less electronics and slightly better lglaser and energy boating ability than the Supernova, But replacing some of the Gladiators ballistics with beam weapons. The H should definitely NOT have ecm. Maybe BAP.

The command variant you probably want to match, but not completely outclass the cyclops. 1 3slot ballistic, 2 3slot energy, 1 3slot missile. 1 2 slot energy, 1 2slot omni. The command probably should have ECM, BAP,LAMS, Gyro, maybe targeting computer, but no C3 since that is an IS technology.

For those times when you just want ONE more gun...Something else I'm contemplating...

It makes a sound like Boom Chaka Chaka Boom!

THAT ROCKS! big gun goodness, rotary cannons to the max!

It's verybad's limited production custom turkina. Very nice, how much?

I do really like them, throwing in a few sub variants with one or two of those giant autocannons would be interesting. Are they meant to rotate? Would be kind of hard to animate them with respect to the loadouts people take. Or they could not be animated at all, but it would look odd seeing shots coming from only one barrel. Tricky.

I like the fact that the main variants have been given separate models instead of just making one mech with a bunch of slots omni. If possible could some other mechs be given the variant treatment? My main complaint here sits with missiles coming out of what look to be direct fire weapon pods. Notable examples include the loki, thor, and novacat. It's true that part of the fun of the game is guessing someones loadout, but seeing missiles come out of a gun pod looks stupid - unless it's arrows, then I can satisfy myself by thinking the weapon pod is a huge bazooka. I'm not complaining if that isn't changed though, it's not that big of a deal.

Here are some of my suggestions. people can use the sillouettes to make their own suggestions


on real multibarrelmashineguns only one barrel fires at a time. so its not that unrealistic at all. however - havin 6 versions of one mech ingame will look a little od since most other mechs just have one version to play with - even the omnis.
speaking of omnis. VB you mentioned that the external pods are ment to be omni and the different versions reflect that very well. but how are the omnislots supposed to work ingame. are the omnipods represented through the miltiple versions of your mech, while having no omnisslots in the mechlab or are they supposed to be gray omnislots in the mechlab no matter what version?




ed

Goddarn, guns and more GUNS!

forget that question please - i reread the thread and i found the answer to my question thin k i have to redo my suggestion as well.



ed

Heh if there are six Turkina versions each one could be suited to fit their own stock CBT loadout.

WIN!

The only thing I'd say about Whammy's missile config proposal is to make four of those slots (2 on each arm) heat-generating weapon slots.

updated ideas :

i think since this mech will be quite easy to disarm it should get big slots. speed should be low and the torso should swivel slow as well wit an 80 degree arc to each side. accelleration and decelleration should be the middle of the road while maneuverability should be on the lower end of assault mechs - its a 95ton monser afterall.
the prime and command should get theloads of electronis, especialy the command version should benefit. the missle version shouldnt be able to hide very well but jumpjets should give it better mobility - it should be dependant on narcs for fast lock on since it can carry alot of missles. the direct fire versions should come close to the annihilator but hindered with a slow torso that cant move all around.

arms and pods shouldnt be armored alot since this thing is made to dish out - it shoud be a very powerfull but fragile mech for 95 tons.

the way I see it!, but VB may have other ideas...


Turkina is a big ugly clan omnimech. It has tons of armor, and is set up to allow a huge payload.

sure - i just see it this was: these big pods damand big weapons - but it shouldnt be overpowered. theres a reason why there is one class of mechs even heavier then the turkina. so i see it as a mech with mindblowing weapons - not all of one kind to enheance multiroleability - but very powerfull. that combined with good electronics and jumpjets is indeed a monster - so it shoulnd be a zombiemech. it should be rather easy to kill - im nt talking about a fast kill - but an easier as with other 95tonners. those arms and gunpods should be weak to balance for the firepower - the armor for the mech itself is no big issue. that can be as high as others of the same weightclass.

im looking forward to pilot one of these. someone should mace a camo with greenfalconfethers for it - turkina keshik

O.o
I have a new wallpaper...
Please, put this one in MP4. I love these arms...

Extremely well done loadout layout Whammy, I saved them to my desktop. Will be looking at them while I prep the upload for Jeho.

Don't think I'll be doing six visual variants, 5 might make it though.

The rotary mounts add a huge amount of menace to the design. Love it.

I have a coupl of nitpick concerning the second set, though: why doesn't the missile variant get to mount Artemis IV while the command with 5 slots capable of mounting missile weapons does? Also, why does the former need Advanced Gyros? After all, it is pretty much a second liner IMHO.

As a general rule, I'd think about which electronics packages benefit the mech slots the most, so an all missile variant would get Artemis IV, while a mostly ballistic one would get Advanced Gyro.

I wouldn't give LAMS to the Heavy Firepower variant. It has weapons, ain't that enough?

Heavy Support/Multirole/DF: +JJ, +ECM? The latter not so much, but JJ are IMHO mandatory for a Support variant.

Close Combat Support: +Advanced Gyro? After all, you're in the line of fire

Missile: + Artemis IV, +ECM, - Advanced Gyro...I REALLY don't want to be seen sneaking up on the enemy...

Command: - Artemis IV...There's not a lot of missile slots to go around in order to justify Artemis IV, IMHO ^^

Prime: I'd give it ECM, but then it'd give the Command variant a run for the money, at least with the second slot layout.


Note that I've taken whammy's second set of possible slots as a basis for all of the above. Significant deviations in the final MP4 release will render this whole post moot ^^

A great many thanks to him for taking the time to visualize the different variant sslot- and equipment-wise.

Probably most missile dependent mechs should have artemis available to them. But I hope mektek made Artemis subsystem very heavy to mount (like 3 or 4 tons) because artemis on all missiles can get very powerful very fast.

the thought behind giving command and prime the artemis was that it would help them use these slots as it cant mount an extreme amount of missles. the missle variant shouldnt have artemis because a mech capable of 140 lrm should not have it because it would suck to play against it. having it depending on another mech equipped with narc adds to the teamplay character of the game - however the 140lrm suggested by me may be too hefty.
why the firepower does have lams? mainly as a bit of compensatin for the lack of jumpjets and ecm and the fact that the main weapons are very exposed. but it is a suggestion - not more not less. im not the one deciding here

Some of those variants are way too overpowered.

For instance, your command variant has crazy firepower combined with maximum electronics. Something has got to give there. Reduce the arms to 2e/2e for a much more balanced layout. It should also have a c3 master unit.

The missile variant should not have jump jets.

Remember, a pure missile variant is very handicapped when it comes to close combat. Having to use the terrain in order to get even close to that metal hailstorm source would really challenge a player's ability to evade detection, blindsiding his target and making his shots go true. A worthy challenge, IMHO

I can see why you'd want to give the Firepower variant LAMS, though. Still, I'm not entirely convinced it'do much of a job of keeping the limbs and specials in one piece, since the main danger for them are DF weapons, right?

I'm well aware you're as much a member of Mektek as me


EDIT: Damn, forgot about the availability of C3! Yeah, it's a must have for the Command variant.

i think we need to know how much free tonnage this mechs is going to have and how good its heatefficency will be.
before that we wont be able to think about what slot is to big or to small or of what size.
however - i think the command version should be the standalone version of the mechs - the others should be forced to fullfill certain roles. c3 sounds good to me. do clans have c3? iirc it was one of those unique IS goodies.

when it comes to looks i realy like the command the most and the version with the one multibarrel arm. that realy looks modular and cries out OMNI

Additionally, we'll have to keep in mind the number of slots directly influences the mech's ability to store and dissipate heat.

Your Multirole variant seems to be right on the money with this, but you force pilots to take ballistics as their primary weapons with little space to try something a bit different, whammy. Considering how often I've seen Pitbulls online back in the day when I still had the time to play, that variant strikes me as a bit unliked by the community...then again, you have a bit of energy in the mix as well, so the outcome may in the end surprise us all. I really don't know how often the Pitbull is being used nowadays, BTW. As I said, RL keeps me from playing online at this point in time

As for the free tonnage, would anyone mind checking on the Gladiator's free tonnage as well as maximum tons of FF armor? That'd give all of us a better understanding about what to expect from the Turkina chassis.

I concur with Magnus. I like this model as much as anyone else, but I don't want to see a god mech. There is a long list of mechs that you need to keep this mech relatively in line with for balance reasons.

Anni
Atlas
Daishi
Fafnir
Kodiack
Moth 1
Moth 2
Mad 2
Warlord
Gladbag
Hauptman
Warthog
Cyc
Highlander
Bloodasp
Madcat 2
Mauler
Sunder
Supernova
Massakari

The layouts you propose outclass all of them by a fair margin.

Only six mechs can mount 5 or more 3 slot weapons. Daishi, Moth2, Sunder, and Massakai are all 5x3. Only the Daishi and Moth2, 100 tonners both can commit all of that to direct fire weapons. The Warlord is 6x3, only 4 of those can be committed to direct fire weapons. The Kodiak can go 7x3 but half of its slots are missiles. All the others cap out at 4x3. The configs you are suggesting here have imo way to many 3 slot hard points, such that even with limited electronics they will be overly dominant. There is no Mech in the game that can mount 2cgauss and 4erppcs, especially with room for even more lasers, lppcs or mini-gauss. I don't feel that a 95 tonner, clan or not, cool model or not(and it is impressive btw VB) should so totally outclass all other mechs in its class in terms of slottage.

Clan units do not get C3, period. Never. Sry. We're looking at something to make up for that. Overall firepower for all variants will be looked at. We want the Turk to be powerful, but not overpowering.

Regarding the Turkina, IMO it's the Jade Falcons answer to the Wolf Clan's Dire Wolf, so it should be strong, believe me though, that I'd rather released an underpowered than overpowered mech. ECM will probably only be on the command unit, possibly the Heavy Firepower unit to help it close. The clans are offense first, and the Jade Falcons especially so. The missile variant will get Artemis, but not jets. It is my intention to have each variant be slightly flawed and make people wish they could combine the best of all of them. I don't want to invalidate other mechs in the game however.

Overall, you raise a valid point, but remember the weapon weight when you think about the 2xCGauss 4xCERPPC example you're giving. 50 tons. Not exactly a lot of armor and HS you can fit in there anymore. As long as the predominant part of possible 3 slot weapons is energy-based, it isn't much of a problem. Even the Masakari can carry 4 CERPPC's, which doesn't automatically mean its prime config is particularly widespread. Heat issues prevent that from happening pretty effectively, I'd say.

Making the arm energy slots 4/2 instead of 3/3 for the Firepower and 3/2 instead of 3/3 for the Command variant would alleviate this issue a bit, though. Still, there's the problem of people using the former variant for LPPC boating. With my suggested changes, that'd make 9 LPPC's numerically. Daishi can only mount 6, so THAT definitely seems overpowered. I'm not sure how much the heat management would be overtaxed by the strain of an alpha strike, though

Additionally getting rid of the CV's chin mount could be a solution to this. One less LPPC as well as a hit to the maximum amount of heat the mech can store.

Instead of C3, how about Enhanced Imaging? I know that it did not have a big communications bonus in CBT, but it helped pilots navigate the terrain a lot.

Topic related to current discussion (loadouts and electronics packages).

It's my understanding that with MP4 the IS will have lots of neat networking electronics, whilst the Clans will be much stronger standalone combat units. Does this still ring true? If so, how pronounced will the difference be?

Im really eager for this to happen. This will bring the game back inline with CBT with the IS units having to work together against the Clans to overcome their technological edge.

P.S.
Add 1 more vote for the RAC looking arms to be added as a separate variant.

toned down suggestion no 4slots anymore but more dual capability slots. bit more electronic. no jj for m variant , ecm for firepower variant and so on. hope that fits better with the overall opinion.

Those seem a lot more reasonable. Almost perfect.

With the Prime variant and others though the special missile slots could probably still be 3M.

I can't see much fault with those variants at all.

Also, I think there should be a speed/handling difference between all the variants.

For instance, the Command variant is the fastest and most agile but the least free tonnage.
Next is Prime, than Missile, than Support, than heavy heavy fire.

Armor capabilities from least to greatest:

Command, Missile, Prime, Close Fire Support/Whatever we're calling that one, heavy fire support.

Could be interesting indeed.

Have to remember on suggestions for the "restricted omni" slot types the magenta slots are energy/missile (H-slots), the cyan are ballistic/missile (A-slots) and the blue are energy/ballistic (D-slots).

as far as those ideas, I agree they look pretty good now for the most part. The Missile pods on the shoulders of the prime and M should def. be 3 slot, maybe four on the M if the concerns over competition to the longbow are low.

Right now the prime is a tad under gunned on your idea though, It is functionally Identical to the Madcat 2 with less missiles. I would say take that, make the top missiles larger and give it a second omni point on the empty side. This would make it just that tad bit better than the mark 2 you would expect to see with 5 extra tons.